Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:00:00
This fall, the nation’s top doctor confirms something that I suspect a lot of parents already knew.
48%. Nearly half of parents are saying on most days they are completely overwhelmed by their stress. That is an extraordinary number that should alarm all of us.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:00:19
When U.S. Surgeon General Dr. Vivek Murthy published an advisory calling parental stress a public health issue, I think a lot of parents out there felt seen. They felt heard. As a parent to three teenage girls myself, I know that I did. So I wanted to hear from all of you. I asked, how are you coping with the stress and the burnout that can come with raising kids in modern times? And the response from all of you was overwhelming.
I am burnt out and my career as a teacher already. And then I have two young children that require a lot of attention and love all the time. I love this stage of my life, but I am at a point of burnout.
It is a little overwhelming a lot of times dealing with kids and school and sicknesses and things like that.
It has been virtually impossible to stay on top of everything and the constant school being out and the half days and the emails and then the work stress with constant layoffs left and right.
‘If you count self-medicating and overeating as coping, then that is what I am doing to get by day to day. I have no idea how I am going to do this for the next 20 years.
‘We’re talking about having to coordinate childcare, having to coordinate, pick-up, drop offs, having to coordinate transportation five days a week.
It’s really, really hard because I have to take care of these kids, can’t quit on them, can’t give up because that’s not what a parent does. And so, yeah, that’s just where I am. Not complaining, but just realizing that the burnout and stress is real.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:02:04
You know, I got to tell you, it was pretty heartbreaking to listen to all those voicemails. And at the same time, it was somewhat vindicating as well. You see, I think one of the things about parental stress is that it can make you start to lose context for your life. You may start to lose sight of what is normal, what is acceptable. You may start to wonder, is this just how life is supposed to be? And then one day you hear, No, this is actually hard. This is tough. And maybe just hearing that makes you feel a little bit better. So suffice it to say that these calls from all of you, they really hit close to home for me. You know something else, October 10th was World Mental Health Day. And with all these things in mind, I decided to turn to someone who can address the staggering rates of stress that we’re seeing among parents right now.
Dr. Becky Kennedy
00:02:55
There’s almost pride of like, I’m such a mess. I’m taking care of my kids and I’m running myself into the ground and I’m just say simply, no, no, nope, nope. Like selflessness, terrifies me.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:03:10
That’s Dr. Becky Kennedy. During the pandemic, Dr. Kennedy and her unique approach to parenting rose in popularity online.
Dr. Becky Kennedy
00:03:18
I’m Dr. Becky Kennedy, and I’m a clinical psychologist specializing in parenting. And I want to break this down for you.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:03:23
Time magazine dubbed her the “millennial parenting whisperer.” I read her book, and I can tell you, at its core, her approach is pretty simple. If parents want to soothe their kids’ anxiety, then they need to first start by soothing their own anxiety, soothing their own stress. And she also says this: parenting is a skill that all of us can learn. Just like doctors trained in medical school and lawyers go to law school. There’s no shame in not knowing how to approach it on your own. And sometimes the answers may not be what you expect.
Dr. Becky Kennedy
00:03:57
I should say with trepidation. But I’m going to say it. I don’t think I ever said I hate you to my parents. And I think it would have been good for me to have done that, okay?
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:04:08
Really? Interesting.
Dr. Becky Kennedy
00:04:09
Yes.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:04:09
Now, I’m going to tell you this. Our conversation got pretty personal. It almost felt like a therapy session. But the reason that I’m sharing this is because I hope this will help some of you out there the way that it helped me. I’m Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN’s chief medical correspondent. And this is Chasing Life.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:04:35
Long before she may have appeared on your Instagram feed. Dr. Becky, which is how she introduces herself, was working in her own private practice. She was coaching people on how to parent as well as counseling adults when she suddenly had this realization.
Dr. Becky Kennedy
00:04:50
We’re causing problems in childhood and trying to solve them in therapy. And while it’s never too late, it just would be more efficient if we could give kids from the start what would help them be resilient, confident, you know, mentally healthy adults in the future. And so I just started to question everything. I was like, well, maybe everything I’ve been told, maybe it’s all based on the set of assumptions that are just that they’re assumptions and not truths. So do we have to punish our kids to make them learn right from wrong? If I don’t punish that, does that actually mean I’m reinforcing bad behavior? Or if I just kind of stripped away all the assumptions of what really is a behavioral control model of parenting, I think I was left with one thing. And it’s just kids are born good inside and they’re born with all the emotions and none of the skills to manage emotions. And any time we have emotions without skills, those emotions explode out of us as behaviors. That is true for adults and kids. But the behaviors aren’t the problem. They’re the symptom of the problem, which is the lack of skills. And I remember at the time being like, I’m teaching my kid how to swim. They can’t swim. That’s annoying, but I’m not going to send them to their room to learn how to swim just because I’m annoyed that they can’t swim. I can’t imagine my friends would say I was doing a stellar job at teaching my son how to swim if I was sending him to his room or taking away his dessert. It might feel powerful in the moment for me to say that. But it wouldn’t be effective. Kids learn how to swim when they’ve mastered the skills to swim, and they don’t learn how to swim at a certain age. They have to actually be taught skills and practice them. And I just thought, What if the same thing is true for emotion regulation? What if they’re actually a set of skills? And then just like my whole worldview changed about parenting. And I think this idea hits people at an intellectual level that makes sense and honestly has hit people in a really deep social heart level in a way that just feels right.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:06:45
‘I will say, look, I’m no expert. And, you know, I all I had really to go on was my own parents. But and I also will say this and I and I and I’ll say this with a little bit of trepidation and caution, but I have three teenage girls. And what is so striking to me sometimes, Dr. Becky, is how differently they treat me versus their mom. And there have been times when I’ve gone to one of my daughters on the side and said, hey, look, you can’t do that. You can’t talk like that. You’re going to regret it one day. I don’t know what what day that will be, but you’ll look back on this as an adult and say, my God, I can’t believe I spoke to my mother that way. I hate you. You’re the worst mom in the world, you know? I mean, just I never spoke to my mom like that ever, even today. And I’m in my mid-fifties. What is that?
Dr. Becky Kennedy
00:07:34
So let’s break down what is that? A couple things. What, what is the I hate you. What is the why is my kids saying things that I literally would never have said? So there’s that what is that? Then there’s the I really do feel like my kids kind of do react differently to me and my partner, even though we both really love our kids. Right? And so let’s break down both of those. First, the I hate you and I have to say something that might sound also like something I should say with trepidation, but I’m going to say it. I don’t think I ever said I hate you to my parents and I think it would have been good for me to have done that.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:08:07
Really? Interesting.
Dr. Becky Kennedy
00:08:08
Yes. And and there’s nuance there. I’m not I don’t want the headline, Dr. Becky Things every kid should say hate you to their parents. That’s like so not the headline. Okay. Here’s the nuance. Why do kids say I hate you? Why do they say you’re the worst parent ever? Again, I’m going to go back to something I already said. Kids are born with all the emotions and none of the skills to manage those emotions. That gap always means that a feeling will come out of you as an explosive behavior. That’s what it means. Unless. Unless some kids, based on their temperament environment, they kind of learn if my feelings come out in that way. That is so dangerous. Either I literally get punished and maybe I get hit. Maybe some families. And I think mine was more like this. I just get a look that’s kind of a look that says like, you’re not really a member of this family right now. Like, kind of says it in my eyes, like, you know, who are you? And that feel so bad to kids that maybe certain kids, not the rebellious ones, I can tell you. Not my third. He would not care about that look. But some kids will then kind of work to kind of internalize and keep it all in. Why do I think kids, you know, could benefit here and there from saying I hate you? Because what they’re really saying is I’m feeling so angry and frustrated and I am telling you, I don’t have the skills to manage anger and frustration in a healthy way. And if we see it that way, is that it tells you the thing your kid needs to work on. And I think you and I, Dr. Gupta, Right. We know when you are an adult and you’re in even the best relationship with a friend or the best relationship to whatever degree that means with a partner. You’re going to be mad at them. And how you learn to deal with anger in your closest relationships is actually critical to the health of your relationship. And if you think your best strategy is to just suppress anger. By the time you’re an adult, you’re not as fearful of the other person. You’re fearful of your parent as a kid because you need them to survive. Literally. When you’re in a partnership, you don’t need them in the same way. But if you get to be 18,38 and you’re basically saying, I have no skills to manage anger healthily because I always just shut it down and never really learned how to turn anger from I hate you to I’m really upset about this. We have to figure this out. Which comes from anger. There’s no reason you just get that at a 30 year old and you’re going to be a 30 year old who either explodes, who has your anger come out and acting out and all types of passive aggressive ways. I think I’m setting my kid up to be able to say one day to a partner or two or maybe even to a boss, Hey, I didn’t get this promotion. And I really remember the meeting where I was promised this promotion. And so I’m upset and I want to figure this out with you. Maybe there’s something I missed, but I want to get to the bottom of this because I care about this company. That comes from learning to deal with anger, not from learning that anger should be kept out of a relationship.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:10:51
We went deep pretty fast here Dr. Becky.
Dr. Becky Kennedy
00:10:53
I know we did. Sorry. It’s like my tendency. It’s not even 9.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:10:56
No, it’s not even good. I’m just. I’m just reflective as I’m listening to you and, you know. And the other thing I will say is, well, when I when I read that surgeon general report recently about parental stress. I couldn’t help but think, is this worse now for us than it was for our parents? Has it always just been challenging?
Dr. Becky Kennedy
00:11:15
I have to imagine parenting has always been hard. I think that is true. I mean, I think when you have kids, any idea you have about what parenting is going to be, you’re like disillusioned quickly and you’re like, we kind of unconsciously thought my kids were going to heal me. Turns out they trigger me and they’re just kind of prompting me to work on all the things I never worked on. Like, is that what I signed up for? For three different children? I have three too. Like, it’s like a lot of growth, you know? And I do think that’s just hard work. I think the thing that’s different now is if I think about one of the biggest impacts cell phones and social media and video games and the intensity and the kind of quick moving nature of them, what it’s had on us, it’s really changed our circuitry in terms of our expectation that low effort will bring immediate, intense gratification. Like you can do very little. You can like put your thumbs on an iPad and all of a sudden it’s like the dopamine and the excitement and the gratification is they are aware in most things in life, whether you’re talking about being in a relationship, parenting, learning math, you have to put high effort for delayed, very delayed gratification, where we’re building circuitry for low effort, instant gratification. That’s like pretty counter to what actually helps people operate in the world. And the way this relates back to the parents, because I think we’ve talked about this with our kids, but I think the thing we don’t talk about enough as parents is our change circuitry based on this digital world. I think this generation of parents and I’m going to put my hand up, I am in it, and this is true for me. Like our expectations of gratification and ease of life are so much higher than my parents. Like if I was whining as a kid and my parent was like, I want to deal with this, first of all, I don’t even think they think about that as much. Like, this is life. Life is hard. Like it’s just harder than it is today. And I always go back to like, what would my mom have had to do to distract herself in that moment? I feel like she would have had to open up the New York Times and read an article. Like, What was she going to do? If I think about me and my kids whining and I’m like, I want to deal with this, I could go back to going on Instagram. I could do anything that gives me immediate gratification. And so I am less tolerant of the inherent distress that comes with raising kids because my circuitry has changed. Then my experience of how hard these moments are is actually seeing those moments is harder based on the convenience that’s built in to every other moment of my life. And the word that comes up for parenting that I really think everyone should know before you have kids. It’s just inconvenient. Having kids is massively inconvenient. When you want to go to the grocery store and instead you have to leave because having a tantrum like it’s just very inconvenient. You’re like, well, literally, how am I going to get Cheerios? Like now I can’t even get them. Or when you see your kids for ten minutes after work and they’re actually just having a meltdown, you’re like, This is not really the ten minutes I had in mind. Then it’s inconvenient. And I think as our life has prioritized and technology has made convenience, the kind of predominant factor we orient to, it is so much harder to parent given the inherent kind of inconvenience of raising kids.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:14:36
Is social media the issue, or is it just allowing what is already existing to be unmasked in different ways?
Dr. Becky Kennedy
00:14:44
I think my kind of nuanced answer there is I think there’s been a really important component that’s been left out of the conversation around the impact of social media on kids. To me. I think a lot about how hard it is for parents to be sturdy leaders for their kids. That’s the name we always think about is like the Good Inside approach is we help parents become…
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:15:07
I love this part of your book. By the way, everyone should read it. But that that just really clicked with me, the sturdiness as a sort of driving, you know, adjective here.
Dr. Becky Kennedy
00:15:17
And that means so much. You know, I always think about words that I like, words that I have, like a cheat code for where I say them and I like know the feeling in my body, like helps me access something. And sturdy, I think really brings up this really positive sense of yoga. The best leaders in our lives have been sturdy. There’s something about them, like you can locate them, like we were saying. There’s that edge, you know where they stand and they’re just flexible enough that you’re like, They’re listening to me. They care about me. They might not change their opinion based on what I’m saying. And if they do, it’s probably because they’re changing their opinion, not because they want to make me happy. And there’s it’s like I can stay connected to myself. I know my boundaries. I can still stay connected to you and kind of not be threatened by your feelings. And that to me is the essence of a sturdy leader. Sturdy leaders in the workplace, definitely in the family system. Set boundaries and validate their kids feelings. Those are the two parts of being like a good inside parent, a sturdy leader. We do both. And I have seen across the board kind of a lack of sturdy leadership in families. I have seen this overcorrection from punishing my kids, which I also just don’t even think is effective. But there’s that to my kids feelings. Now dictate what I do. And that is such an overcorrection. And I think we have this crisis now where parents need a step by step guide to how to kind of come to something that’s in the middle. I am the parent. I am the appropriate authority. And I think we have the word authority and we kind of cringe like you are the authority of your family. You don’t to be a dictator authority. I don’t recommend that. But you’re the pilot of the plane. The pilot of the plane does not ask for permission from the passengers to make an emergency landing. And if they’re complaining because they want to go to Los Angeles, even though we have to make an emergency landing in Kansas, a good, sturdy pilot would say, I know it’s annoying. I’m going to get off the loudspeaker now and land this plane in Kansas because they know their job. And that’s actually what a passenger would want a pilot to do because the pilot’s like, you don’t want me to do it. Okay, everyone’s whining and you’re going to give me a bad review on Yelp. And so forget it. I’ll just keep flying to Los Angeles. You end up being like, Who is this person in charge? And I actually think that model of like kind of awful piloting or kind of like dangerous piloting has kind of taken over parenting. And the reason this relates to social media is I don’t see such a crisis of social media as much as I see a crisis of sturdy leadership. I think about this like 13 year old in this family. I was working with this kid had a you know, they’re like, there’s no tech talk, basically. And this kid had this I mean, massive, intense reaction. Parents like, I feel like I’m losing my relationship with my kid like, over this. I don’t know if I can tolerate that. And to some degree, I think the kid was saying you you’ve never set a boundary with me a day in your life. Like, why do you think you’re going to start here? And part of my reactions about TikTok, but part of my reaction is who who are these humans who claim to be my parents? This is a completely different way of relating to each other than we’ve had for 13 years. And I just think that conversation needs to happen and that conversation is so hopeful because no matter how old your kid is, I actually know this. I can help parents start setting boundaries today. I wouldn’t start at the level of TikTok. If you’ve never set a boundary, I’d start with other things. You’ve got to build up your muscle. It’s like you got to take a foul shot in the gym before you think you’re going to make a foul shot when the game is on the line in the NBA championship, you’re not going to start there. But we can build the skill. I think it’s just a different skill than parents have been thinking about.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:18:48
‘We’re going to take a quick break here. But when we come back, Dr. Becky is going to tell us how to take some time for self-care without feeling guilty.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:19:06
You know, I was taking a walk with a friend of mine, another father in our neighborhood the other day. And he we both have kids in college now. And he said something along the lines of, you know, I’m really making sure she’s, you know, focused on her studies and this and the other thing. She doesn’t get a three, five, you know, we’re pulling her out. And I thought to myself, no, you’re not. No, you’re not. That’s like that’s a ridiculous boundary. And you’re and the thing about setting boundaries is that if you don’t follow through, then on whatever the consequence may be, it almost seems like it would be worse. Right? Because now you’ve now you’ve set an artificial boundary, an artificial red line, so to speak.
Dr. Becky Kennedy
00:19:42
I want to double click on that because I think we’re talking about the difference in a boundary and threat. And I actually think at Good Inside because people think oh, Dr. Becky doesn’t like punishment. She’s one of these permissive parenting. If you’ve watched me parent my kids or recommend anything permissive will be the last thing on your mind. You would see that threatening kids is actually a form of permissive parenting. And I’ll explain. And boundaries. People just misunderstand. So I want to give you my definition of boundaries because I think it’s life changing. I really do. Boundaries are things we tell our kids we will do, and they require a kid to do nothing. That’s really important because so often we think we’re setting a boundary. But the success of that supposed boundary depends on my kid’s cooperation. That’s not a boundary. That’s a request. And we make requests all the time. But if I say to my kid, I need to get off the couch, stop jumping, I need to get off the couch, I need to get off the couch. And we say they’re not listening. They’re not respecting my boundary. I didn’t tell my kid what I would do, and it required my kid’s cooperation. My kid’s basically telling me I’m knocking off the couch. And my solution is to say to my four year old, well, can you now do something you’re showing me you’re not able to do? It’s just like not effective. A boundary would be saying, I’m going to walk over and if by the time I’m there, you’re not off the couch, I will pick you up and I will put you on the ground because it’s just not safe to be jumping so close to our glass table. I don’t know. Whatever it is, that’s a boundary. And then I’m going to do it. And then this is important. My kid will not say, you make me feel so safe. You’re such a good mom. No! My kid’s going to scream and cry. That’s what they do in response to boundaries. So what you’re saying with your friend, like if you’re saying something you’re not going to do, it’s just an empty threat. And ironically, it undermines your authority. We feel powerful saying it. We kind of get to vomit our frustration onto our child. That’s all it really does. We just get to like take our own frustration. And because we aren’t great at managing it, we just get to, like, explode. And again, the irony is we’ve actually told CEOs they can’t really do this in the workplace anymore. We’re like, we have management consultants like that. That’s really not effective. We actually help CEOs manage their frustration so they can be more effective leaders. And we’re just behind in thinking like maybe our most vulnerable population, like the children who are wiring their bodies for the rest of their lives, like they probably deserve the same type of leadership training to be given to their parents.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:22:02
By the way, in case my friend is listening, because he does listen to this podcast. Let me just say, like, I am guilty of the same thing. I am guilty of vomiting my frustrations out.
Dr. Becky Kennedy
00:22:11
Me too!
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:22:12
This sort of threats, you know, I’ve done it. I’ve done it. But sometimes it takes someone like a doctor, Becky, or a friend or somebody to just say, hey, look, I mean, you’re being a little. Let me let me let me context set here a little bit.
Dr. Becky Kennedy
00:22:25
And can we come back to that, your friends example? Because, again, the reason I like to, like act out what we all say is not because I’ve heard someone else say these things. It’s because I’ve heard my own voice say last night, we all say this. It goes back to parenting is hard and we’re underequipped because they’re when we say like, I’m going to pull you out of college if it’s just a threat. I think we just theirselves. What? What do I really want to communicate to my kid? And this is just important in any area of life. Whenever you communicate to someone like they’re the enemy, it will be completely ineffective because it evokes defensiveness. So someone’s not even hearing what you’re saying until you can think about describing a problem in a way where it’s me and you against a problem instead of me against you where you are the problem. You shouldn’t even talk to someone like literally, because it’ll just set you back. It’s just not effective. So in this to me is a phrase we should always start with, no matter what age in the workplace today was. First of all, I just want to say we’re on the same team. We are on the same team because I know we’re both invested in you getting the most out of your college education in a way that also allows you to be you and have some fun. Let me just say, you’re on that team. I’m on that team. We’re on that team together. And I’ve just been noticing it’s like been veering a little in the direction of, like, fun and it feels like it might be a moment to talk about, Hey, is that what’s happening? And is there a way to just rebalance it, not to have no fun? I got it. But but to go to your classes to get the most because I want to be honest, this is true. Like we’re paying for your college education. That’s like a huge investment. And I actually think you know that too, right? This is like the generosity, and I just want to talk it out. I have a feeling you have some ideas around until maybe there’s something that’s getting in your way of studying. Maybe something feels hard. But this is like the kind of stuff that’s really important to talk through. So let’s figure it out together. Like, that is going to be I actually think that’s probably what we want to get. And we’re just so frustrated that we just, again, vomit it out. But the irony is when you say like, I’m just going to go to college, you actually don’t even get to the core issue. You don’t actually help your kid build a skill they didn’t have and you’re just not you’re both going to be less likely to solve the problem and ironically, less likely for your kid to want to talk to you to get help in solving the problem. Right. And so that to me would be this other way that’s not permissive. It’s not like I’m saying, Hey, I’m gonna start sending you kegs because you seem to really like keg stands. I wouldn’t recommend that intervention, but I would say let’s get to the core thing and figure it out together.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:24:50
I feel very validated right now. Can I just say?
Dr. Becky Kennedy
00:24:53
That’s my goal.
I mean, again, I don’t know what the heck I’m doing, but but I but I do. I read your book and one of the core tenets in the book, I think, and you’ve alluded to this, but it’s the idea of soothing the anxiety and stress that many adults feel in part to help soothe the the anxiety and stress that your children feel in your own heart rate before you take care of your patient. Yes, but why? Like sometimes there there’s it seems like sometimes there’s some guilt with that that parents would feel guilty to to be sort of self soothing, you know, doing things for themselves. Why is parent’s wellbeing so important to raising kids?
Dr. Becky Kennedy
00:25:31
I mean, I think there’s all these ideas we’ve ingested this idea that maybe it’s parenthood, but it’s probably more like motherhood. Motherhood is martyrdom, and there’s almost pride of like, I’m such a mess. I’m taking care of my kids and I’m running myself into the ground. And I. What strikes me again is I just think about the pilot. Like, I’ve been flying for four weeks and I haven’t slept because I love piloting so much. You’d be like, my goodness. Like, please go sleep. Aren’t there rules? That would terrify people? But I think that’s been the model of parenthood and the message we want to get out there is. I’m just gonna say it simply. No, no, no, no. Like selflessness terrifies me. That’s the rebrand to me of parenting. You taking care of yourself, is the single most important thing to even have the capacity to take care of another person. And so taking care of yourself is not selfish. Self care isn’t selfish. Self care is self establishing is self, you know, protective. And kids don’t want selfless martyrs. Kids want sturdy leaders. They won’t say it. But they need that deep down. Just the way we do of the best leaders in our life.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:27:01
I hope all the parents out there are listening to that because I think there is sometimes guilt that comes with that. Taking some time for yourself and I should be spending all this time with the kids. By the way, parents spend more time with kids nowadays, right?
Dr. Becky Kennedy
00:27:13
I know, right?
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:27:14
That’s the other irony in this is that we’re not absent parents, I mean, and not across the board or by any means.
Dr. Becky Kennedy
00:27:21
No. It comes down to these moments at the end of parenting is these moments like, I get it, I can take care of myself. Then you have a moment where I don’t know, you’re going out to dinner with a friend. Let’s say it’s that. And there’s a safe adult. Maybe it’s a partner. Maybe it’s a babysitter to grandma. Like there’s. There’s a safe adult. You’re not abandoning your child, but your child is going to say something like. You never put me to bed. Right. Maybe you literally always do. Or maybe it has been a week or whatever. You never put me to bed. Or if you loved me, you wouldn’t go out to dinner. Like they can say these things are like, wow. It’s like, really piercing. And then we tell ourselves, I feel too guilty. And then we text our friend and we’re like, I have to reschedule. And then, by the way, we’re so resentful of our kid that we just yell at them for the next couple days, which also isn’t great. So what can we do in that moment to bring the idea of kids need sturdy leaders, not selfless martyrs, to life? First of all, and this is another big idea, I don’t think what we’re feeling is guilt. Because guilt is a feeling you have when you act out of alignment with your values. And my guess is parents would say it is within my values to at times prioritize myself and have dinner with my old friend from high school, whatever it is. So what is this? A lot of us have learned, and this is especially true as women, to notice other people’s distressing feelings about the boundaries we set. And we kind of like take those distressing feelings from their body and put it into our body. And we call that guilt. It’s not guilt. It’s actually feeling someone else’s feelings for them. And people get this wrong. They say it’s empathy. It’s not empathy because you’re not understanding someone else’s feeling. You’re actually like metabolizing it for them. And then you don’t go out to dinner, not because you’re empathizing, just because you don’t want to feel the feeling in your body. It’s actually almost. And I can go so far as to make a hyperbolic point. It’s like a selfish endeavor at that point. Empathy requires a boundary. Empathy is actually the key part of sturdy leadership that goes hand in hand in boundaries, which would be saying that’s I know you wish I was here tonight. I get that. And honestly, you’re allowed your life to be mad. You’ll have to be upset. I know this isn’t the way you would want the night to go at the empathy. I can only say that because I’m not feeling my kids feelings. Because I see it as their feeling, not mine. And then I could do the second part of my job. I am going out to dinner and I know you’re going to get through it and we can put something special in my calendar for me and you this weekend, because it’s true. You know, we haven’t done so much and I’ll see you in the morning. I love you. And then you go out and then your kid screams. They’re not going to again, like they’re not going to say you’re right at all. Right. And then the more we practice that, that is sturdiness. Our kids actually don’t want us to become overpowered by their feelings because if we become as scared and overpowered of their feelings as they are, they learn actually to be very fragile because they learn, my goodness, these feelings that overwhelm me. Over. Well, my parent, they they actually must be as bad and kind of toxic as I worry. They want us to see their feelings as real and not be overwhelmed by their feelings. That’s what they deeply want and need.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:30:20
Thank you so much. I kind of feel like maybe you’re living in our house because so many of the examples you’ve given are there that are real for us. And and in a way that’s very soothing because I think sometimes, you know, ironically, in a world of hyper connected social media, I still sometimes don’t have context for the world. Like, I really don’t know what other parents are going to like. Is this normal? And then hearing you talk about it, I realize that it is quite normal. That is quite common. Yes.
Dr. Becky Kennedy
00:30:50
No one gets this right all the time. Like if you want to take it a step further and just Google Dr. Becky Repair, my Ted talk will come up probably on YouTube on the TEDx website. To me, that’s the most important strategy of all is actually repairing after you’ve yelled and messed up and you can’t repair if you don’t mess up. So messing up is part of getting good at the most important strategy. And so there’s no perfection. And I think these ideas, these changes in how we see ourselves and parenting. Yes. I’m so optimistic. I’m so hopeful. And I am also very willing to hold hope for anyone who can access it right now. And so just know I’m holding out for you.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:31:28
And you know what, I’m holding hope for all of my fellow parents out there as well. I hope this conversation helped you as much as it helped me.
And now it’s time for our segment On Call. We have a question from a listener named Fatima in Arizona. And it felt really timely. She wrote to us in an email about kids and screen time asking this How much is too much time? The truth is that experts have told us there is no one size fits all rule, and you probably knew that. But here are some general guidelines. The American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry recommends for children age 2 to 5 limiting non educational screen time to about one hour per weekday and three hours on weekends. As a general rule, they say you should set broader guidelines like turning off screens during family meals. My best advice, as Dr. Becky said, is to be a sturdy parent. Think about that word sturdy. Start setting boundaries early in life so you know how to flex that muscle when it comes to the big stuff like screen time. And who knows, they may even thank you one day. That’s all for today’s podcast. We’ll see you next week.
Chasing Life is a production of CNN Audio. Our podcast is produced by Eryn Mathewson, Jennifer Lai, Grace Walker and Jesse Remedios. Andrea Kane is our medical writer. Our senior producer is Dan Bloom. Amanda Sealy is our showrunner. Dan Dzula is our technical director and the executive producer of CNN Audio is Steve Lickteig. With support from Jamus Andrest, Jon Dianora, Haley Thomas, Alex Manasseri, Robert Mathers, Leni Steinhardt, Nichole Pesaru and Lisa Namerow. Special thanks to Ben Tinker and Nadia Kounang of CNN Health and Katie Hinman.
