Few senior administration officials have spent more time behind closed doors in the White House with President Donald J. Trump than former Marine General John F. Kelly, the president’s longest-serving chief of staff.
As Election Day approaches, Mr. Kelly is deeply troubled by Mr. Trump’s recent comments about deploying the military against domestic adversaries, and has revealed three conversations he had with a New York Times reporter about the former president. I consented to being audio-recorded. He offered some of the most far-reaching comments yet on Trump’s suitability and character.
Kelly served as Secretary of Homeland Security under Trump before moving to the White House in July 2017. For nearly a year and a half, he worked hard to implement Trump’s policies. This period was turbulent, and he attracted internal criticism about his performance and at times became disillusioned and distressed by actions on the part of the president, which he considered inappropriate and did not reflect an understanding of the Constitution.
In the interview, Kerry expanded on concerns he had previously expressed, emphasizing his view that voters should consider a candidate’s suitability and character more than their issue positions when choosing a president.
“In many cases, I would agree with some of his policies,” he said, stressing that as a former military member he is not endorsing any candidate. “But again, it’s very dangerous to have the wrong person elected to high office.”
He said Trump meets the definition of a fascist, would rule like a dictator if allowed, and has no understanding of the Constitution or the concept of the rule of law.
He cited previous reports that Trump had made comments praising Hitler, disparaged disabled veterans and characterized those who died on the battlefield serving the United States as “losers” and “the lowest of the low.” were discussed and confirmed. The comments were first reported in 2020. Written by Atlantic.
Trump campaign spokesman Stephen Chan blasted Kelly in a statement, calling Kelly’s testimony from his time in the White House a “debunked story” and calling himself “deceived.” ” he said.
Below is an excerpt and audio of Mr. Kelly’s comments.
Kelly said that based on his own experience, Trump meets the definition of a “fascist.”
When asked if he thought Trump was a fascist, Kelly began by reading out a definition of fascism he found online.
“If we look at the definition of fascism, it is a far-right, authoritarian, ultra-nationalist political ideology and movement characterized by an authoritarian leader, centralized tyranny, militarism, and opposition. “Forcible oppression, belief in natural social hierarchies,” he said.
Kelly said that definition accurately describes Trump.
“So, certainly, in my experience, he thinks these things are going to work better in running the United States,” Kelly said.
He added: “The former president is certainly in far-right territory, he’s definitely an authoritarian, and he admires dictators — that’s what he says.” Therefore, he certainly falls under the general definition of a fascist. ”
Kelly said Trump is frustrated by the limits of his power.
“He certainly likes a dictator’s approach to government,” Kelly said.
Kelly said Trump “never accepted the fact that he was not the most powerful person in the world. Power means the ability to do whatever you want, whenever you want.”
“I think he wants to be like he is when he’s in business: If you tell people to do something, they do it, and he doesn’t really care about whether it’s legal or not. I don’t care,” he said.
He said he was deeply troubled by President Trump’s recent comments regarding the use of military against domestic adversaries.
When Mr. Kelly left the White House in 2019, he decided that Mr. Trump would only go on record if Mr. Trump said something that was deeply disturbing or implicating him and was grossly inaccurate.
He said Trump’s recent comments about using the military against what he called “the enemy within” were so dangerous that he felt he had to speak out.
“And I think this issue of using the military to attack American citizens is very, very bad. Even saying that for political purposes to get elected is very, very bad. I think that’s a bad thing,’ let alone a very bad thing to actually do,” Kelly said.
Kelly said that going back to his first year in office, Trump was repeatedly told why the U.S. military should not be used against Americans and the limits of its authority. Despite this, Trump continued to push the issue throughout his time in office and maintain that he had the authority to take such action, Kelly said.
“The conversation should have been, ‘Mr. President, that’s outside of your authority, or I know it’s common usage, but you don’t want to do that in the United States.’ ” he said. “But now that he’s talking about it and saying, ‘I do,’ it’s disturbing again.”
He said he believes President Trump is isolated in his lack of understanding of history and the Constitution.
Kelly said Trump lacks basic American values and a basic understanding of what it means to be president.
“He is the only president who has almost rejected the essence of America and what makes America America, in terms of our Constitution, in terms of our values, in terms of how we view everything, including family and government. That’s for sure — he certainly is.” The only president I know of, certainly in my lifetime, was like that,” Kelly said.
“He just doesn’t understand the values. He pretends, he talks, he seems to know more about America than anyone else, but he doesn’t really understand it.”
He said President Trump wants personal loyalty above loyalty to the Constitution.
Kelly said that in her first days working for Trump as chief of staff in the summer of 2017, she had to explain to the president that government officials like her were sworn to and would abide by the Constitution. spoke. That oath over personal loyalty.
Mr. Kelly said Mr. Trump pressed him about the pledge, and said his aides did not seem to understand that his commitment to the Constitution and, by extension, the rule of law should be valued above all else.
“He and I talked about it. It was a new concept for him. I guess that’s the best way to put it, but I don’t think he fully embraced it.”
Kelly said personal loyalty is “virtually everything to him.”
Mr. Kelly said that as soon as someone in his orbit loses that loyalty, that person loses support from Mr. Trump and “your time is short.”
Mr. Kelly said Mr. Trump mistakenly believed that the senior retired generals in uniform he brought in for him were loyal to him above all else.
“Certainly, again, the big surprise for him, if you remember from the beginning of this administration, was that he would talk about ‘his generals,'” Kelly said. “I don’t know why he thought that, but what was a huge surprise to him was that we’re former generals and definitely still active duty guys. That commitment, that loyalty is to the Constitution. And without a doubt, without a second thought.”
Kelly added, “It was a great surprise to him that the generals were not loyal to their superiors, in this case their superiors.”
President Trump said, “Hitler did a good thing.”
Kelly confirmed previous reports that Trump had spoken positively about Hitler on more than one occasion.
Mr. Kelly said that Mr. Trump “commented to me many times, ‘Hitler did good things, too.'”
Mr. Kelly said Mr. Trump has little sense of history, saying, “I think he lacks that,” but tried to explain to Mr. Trump why such statements about Hitler are problematic. He said he intended to do so.
“First of all, you should never say that,” Kelly told Trump. “But if you know what Hitler was from beginning to end, everything he did was in support of his racist, fascist life, philosophy. You can argue that nothing he did was good — it was never done for the right reasons.
Kelly said that would normally be the end of the conversation. But Mr. Trump occasionally brought it up again.
Kelly said President Trump looks down on people who were disabled on the battlefield.
Kelly responded to a question about previous reports that Trump had disdain for disabled veterans, saying Trump doesn’t want to appear in public with people who lost limbs on the battlefield. said.
“Certainly he didn’t want to be seen with amputees. Amputees who lost limbs defending this country fought for all Americans, including him, and they They’re fighting to protect, but they didn’t want to be seen with them.” That’s an interesting perspective for the commander-in-chief. ”
“He would just say, ‘Look, that doesn’t suit me.’
He said Trump called wounded and dead service members “losers and suckers,” despite denials from Trump and some of his aides.
Kelly confirmed statements he made to CNN last year, saying Trump repeatedly told Americans who were wounded, captured or killed in combat that they were “losers and suckers.”
Referring to reports that Trump had said he did not want to visit cemeteries where American soldiers who died in World War I are buried, Kelly said, “The only time he said that was when he was in Paris.” No,” he said. Buried.
“Every time John McCain’s name came up, he would go on a rant about how he was a loser, how all these people sucked, and why do you think people who get killed are heroes?” And he will go through this kind of abuse. ”
“I just couldn’t understand why he acted the way he did. He may be the only American who feels that way about people who have given their lives and served their country.” said Kelly.
Kelly said Trump not only called him a “loser” and a “suck,” but also often questioned Americans’ decision to sacrifice for their country.
At Arlington National Cemetery on Memorial Day 2017, Mr. Trump announced the burial of recently killed service members, including Mr. Kelly’s son, Robert, a Marine who died in combat in Afghanistan in 2010. I inspected the area where the area is located.
Kelly said that as they walked through the cemetery, Trump asked what was there for those who gave their lives.
“And I thought he was asking these rhetorical questions,” Kelly said. “But I didn’t realize he was serious. He just didn’t understand what was important. As I got to know him, this selflessness made him understand. I realized once again that I couldn’t do it. What’s the point in it for them?”
Mr. Kelly had nothing good to say about Mr. Trump.
Mr. Kelly was asked whether he felt any sympathy for Mr. Trump.
“No,” said Mr. Kelly.
